19 June 2023

How good is the communication at your school or preschool? Following the department's Perspective survey last year, communication, change and voice were identified as three focus areas for sites. In this episode, hear from educators at Parafield Gardens High School and Port Lincoln Junior Primary School who have seen a considerable improvement in their site’s communication results and how they went about it.

Show Notes

• Perspective survey – how leaders can interpret and share results (staff login required)
• Perspective survey - actioning your results (staff login required)
• Actioning Perspective - workshops and resources (plink login required)

Transcript

Intro: Teach is produced on the traditional land of the Kaurna people. The South Australian Department for Education would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land and pay our respects to all elders past, present, and emerging.

Dale Atkinson: Hello and welcome to Teach, a podcast about teaching and learning in South Australia. My name is Dale Atkinson from South Australia's Department for Education, and today we're getting a little bit introspective, we are talking about the Perspective survey and how it might be used to improve various different areas, including communication, change, voice, how we can, um, use the process of asking people how they feel about various different aspects of their school experience and how that translates into change in a school environment.

And we are joined by a couple of principals. Karl Robs from Port Lincoln Junior Primary School, hello Karl.

Karl Robst: Hi, how are you?

Dale Atkinson: Good, thank you. And we are also joined by Kirsty Amos, who's the principal at Parafield Gardens High School, and one of her teachers now recently promoted to B1 leader, Beth Pontifex.

Kirsty Amos: Good morning.

Beth Pontifex: Good morning.

Dale Atkinson: Let's talk Kirsty about your school. Can you tell us a little bit about Parafield Gardens High School?

Kirsty Amos: We are a relatively large metropolitan high school. We've got approximately 1,250 students and the demographic is quite, um, diverse. We have up to 50 languages spoken in homes.

We have four or five main languages other than English, and we have a very broad spectrum of socioeconomic status. It is a wonderful school. It's a really inclusive school. We celebrate diversity. And our teaching staff and our ancillary staff is just as diverse as our students and our community. So I feel really proud and privileged to be there.

Dale Atkinson: It's a very large, very complex metropolitan setting.

Kirsty Amos: Yes.

Dale Atkinson: Which I think Karl probably, um, leaves you at the other end of the spectrum. Can you tell us a bit about Portland Lincoln Junior Primary?

Karl Robst: Oh, absolutely. You would think that Parafield Gardens High School and Port Lincoln Junior Primary School could be poles apart on this one, we're actually, um, very unique. As a junior primary school, we actually the last junior primary school in South Australia with our foundation of the year 2 students. We have 260 students on average. Uh, a very broad socioeconomic backgrounds with our families. And being rural South Australia comes with its unique challenges, but also those positives as well.

As a JP school, one of our positives is that real singular focus of education for foundation of year 2. Everything from facilities to staff development has a whole school, JP Design, it's actually quite a, a wonderful spot to work.

Dale Atkinson: So two schools, two very different settings. Um, but the reason we've brought you both together today, um, is to talk about the Perspective survey, which is a survey that we undertake where we invite all our teaching staff to respond, to let us know how things are going onsite and how things are developing, and able to track some of the progress and those sorts of things. Now, one of the three focus areas that we are looking at as a department is around communication, change and voice.

And the reason you are both here today is because you've both been able to deliver some pretty impressive growth in the era of positive feedback around the communications. So we're going to explore a little bit about how that came about. So firstly to you, Kirsty, your communication score between 2020 and 2022 improved by 17%.

Can you tell us how that feels when you see that result?

Kirsty Amos: Oh, well, it was, I was definitely looking for an improvement, but we started from a fairly compromised spot and we've still got a fair way to go, but I was really, really pleased. I was probably a little bit anxious before the results came out because I thought that we had improved, but I wasn't a hundred percent sure of that.

But we had worked really, really hard. Not just me by any means, the whole leadership team, but actually the whole staff. So talking to each other and supporting each other and making sure that if we have a problem, going back to check in, is a really important aspect of what we do. So to have the affirmation that we had made quite a significant improvement in a relatively short period of time was good.

And it meant that we could keep doing things that we were doing, but also look for other ways to get better.

Dale Atkinson: So what was your immediate reaction back in 2020 when you got the initial results? What did that feel like?

Kirsty Amos: Uh, that didn't really feel very good, but I was a little bit protected from it because I had only been in the school for about a term, so I could read it in a particular way.

Probably what was most shocking to me was the comments at the end, but a lot of the comments were about communication. And so I was able to, after you, you put your emotions aside, really analyse what the, um, comments and the data was saying, and then decide with staff what we were going to do about.

Dale Atkinson: It's really important to take a bit of the personal out of it.

Kirsty Amos: Mm-hmm.

Dale Atkinson: Immediately. So what were the things that you went after?

Kirsty Amos: Communication, asking for information, analysing information, sharing the actual information, and then the analysis with people, but trying to do some of the analysis together. It's not possible to do all of the analysis together because, um, getting 150 people together often is difficult, but you can get smaller groups together to discuss things that are relevant to them.

You can share information. So I put out a weekly report, and I do that every Sunday, and I make it clear to people that they don't have to read it on a Sunday, but I would like them to read it before staff meeting on a Monday afternoon. And people have let me know that they like that because some people like to do it on a Sunday. Some people like to do it first thing when they get to school on a Monday. Some people like to do it just before they need to, and all of that is fine. But using that mechanism, um, I can usually send one communication a week. Every now and again, something really important and urgent comes up that I need to not do that, but people then know that that is the methodology that I use.

And if it's in there, it's important and they need to need to know it. But that also gives me an opportunity to put in an in attachments of photographs of data that's being collected and usually collected from everybody so people can see themselves reflected in the data, they can see themselves being listened to, and then they can see that whatever decision is made, either as a collective or with relevant groups, that there's a reason for it.

If I can't do what it is that the majority wants, and it's also important that that's communicated why and what we can do next. If we can't do X, what is it that we can do that is going to have the best outcome for the biggest number of people?

Dale Atkinson: Yeah, so it's communication linked to a strategic purpose.

Kirsty Amos: Yes. The original question was what we wanted to go after first, a lot of people were telling me that behaviour was an issue, and we knew that, and it definitely was the volume of behaviour that needed to be managed. Was a bit overwhelming, so we needed to change how we were doing that. So that was one of the things that we consulted about, and we came up with a very, very different model of how we were going to do that.

Then we had to look at the leadership and how we were going to make sure that the behaviour was managed in a reasonable timely way. And then that we communicated with people what had happened and why and what we were going to do next. And so that wasn't a short process that actually took two terms, but in order to be able to reassure people that we hadn't just forgotten, we had to keep making sure that people knew where we were at in the process and what was happening as a result.

Dale Atkinson: Yeah, really powerful tool for creating a consistency of expectations top to bottom from you know, the students through to the, uh, teaching, leadership and all the way through, and the parents and, and families.

Beth, your experience as a, as a teacher and now B1 leader, what did you see that changed from that 2020 time to now?

Beth Pontifex: Lots of different things, but for lots of different reasons. So not only did our leadership structure change, but the way that teachers were included in different communication also drastically changed. So whether it was communication around behaviour, the way that we are now included in a structured way that if there is a critical incidence, for example, we know what communication we'll receive from leadership and within how long. The day-to-day communication around staffing, we have a daily bulletin that comes out, and this year we've recently added some more information to that. So it's just communication has improved but in lots of different ways and for lots of different people. Kirsty's weekly report that comes out every week, as she just mentioned, and that has different uses for some teachers.

They just like to know and overarching everything that's happening. Some people are really interested in the data that comes out. There's also positives that Kirsty shares in her weekly report about good things that are happening, and teachers love seeing that part of it as well. So I think I've been at Parafield in a really sort of important time of change, but for lots of different reasons, not only just communication.

Dale Atkinson: Now, Karl I don't want to pit you against Kirsty here who had 17% improvement in her communication score, but you got 45%.

Kirsty Amos: That's amazing.

Dale Atkinson: It is amazing. Tell us a bit about how you have achieved that, uh, over the last couple of years.

Karl Robst: In all honesty, it's been great to listen to Kirsty and Beth talk about their site and the improvement they've gone through with that, because we're seeing very similar levers of improvement in our site as well.

Just understanding that the Perspective survey provides that voice for staff, for all staff, and it really does give a good indication of that school climate. It's all about that clarity and consistency. It allows our leadership team to actually understand the climate for the education that's occurring and the initiatives that are taking place.

You know, positive climate leads to more successful initiatives. One of the levers I believe you touched on there, I think is something that we really focus on is building that collective investment in the school's environment and culture. So sharing the data, sharing the information, and really having that ownership about where are the improvements coming from based on that, that survey, so, uh, staff understood that. Now it is valued, their thoughts and their opinions are valued, so therefore, together we'll decide on where it needs to improve. Communication, our leadership team has a real, I guess laser focus on true communication stems from that trust. Building, that trust through all facets of the school and staff, parents, students, and our leadership team really value that communication and have developed the skills to do so with real clarity.

So our deputy and wellbeing leader are great practitioners, are developing those strong working relationships through that trust and really believe that there should be some really clear process for communication. I know Kirsty spoke about different methods and so did Beth, about communication between leadership and staff.

We have a digital platform, which we have similar actions as well with, uh, bulletins and daily communications. And having that ease of communication. Now, I really believe that it really should come from that, and Beth touched on it as well, that value adding direction as well, and really avoiding that deficit model, you know, that, uh, communication really needs to come from that, uh, value adding, so, you know, continues that trust.

Dale Atkinson: Yeah, Kirsty he was nodding along there about the, uh, the value add model. Can you add a little bit to that Kirsty?

Kirsty Amos: Yeah. Schools are complex places regardless of where you are and how big or small or how diverse. But we, we need to manage the things that happen on a day-to-day basis, but we always need to come back to our core business and what it is that we are trying to achieve, which is, make school an amazing place for the young people that we teach and support them to develop the skills and abilities that they need to be successful in whatever it is that they choose to be successful in.

And the way that we do that is to have a site improvement plan. And we have strategies about whether it's about teaching, reading or um, numeracy or digital technology or so we have to be able to communicate about the things that we are making decisions about, but we always have to come back to that core, students at the centre, and we can do that by affirming all of the wonderful things that happen. I don't know of a better place to work than in, in a school because we have so many opportunities to do that. And bringing it back all the time is a good strategy too.

Dale Atkinson: Yeah. It's such a great way to kind of reinforce the good work that's going on and encourage and help improve. One of the things that is a limit of Perspective is it's a point in time. It's, you know, once every couple of years and you get some results back. How do you track that the changes that you're making in response to it are being successful and gaining traction in the interim.

Kirsty Amos: I think we just use it as a point in time, but we continue to ask for information and share information and follow on. It's really important that if you ask for information, that you use it and that you share with people how it's being used. You also need to make sure that just because you got a piece of information and you choose to do X, Y, or Z, and you then do that, that may or may not end up the way that you think. So after you've done that, you've got to collect more information to make sure that it was the right decision in the first place. And if it is excellent, do more of that. But if it isn't, you need to modify it somehow. And you need to include the same people in making the decision if you're going to refine something.

So that's also really important. We, after every student free day, we have a quick Google form response sheet and we, we try and make it really quick and easy for people to see whether it met their needs and again, in the next student free day, if it did meet people's needs, we'll do more of that. If it didn't, we don't do that again.

But we also ask people what it is that would have met their needs. So we do that about really everything. So one of our strategies at the moment is before, during, and after reading strategies. And we have, uh, people really loved sharing their work. It doesn't have to be perfect work, but what the important thing is, is that people feel, um, supported to share, they feel supported that they don't have to be perfect, but that we are all in this together.

And we will get better if we share our work collectively. Lots of different data collection points, lots of sharing and using the information that we have together to get better. Continuous improvement all the time. Because you're already good.

Dale Atkinson: That's not bad. We might chop that out and use that as a, I don't know, a slogan for a t-shirt or something.

Kirsty Amos: I'll buy one.

Dale Atkinson: Karl um, uh, for you, how do, how do you maintain the momentum of or the focus that you are able to identify from Perspective and carry that through?

Karl Robst: I think one of the major challenges, and I know that Kirsty and Beth feel it in larger sites as well, is time. So if you want staff to communicate deeply about student needs, or within ancillary staff or to parents with special initiative groups, they must have the time.

This becomes a time tabling and a finance, and even a human resourcing issue, it can be. But if it's important, you structure the time in, and I love Kirsty's point about noticing all the quality and acknowledging the larger and the smaller achievements and really noticing what's occurring on site. I mean, how we go about checking in and maintaining, I guess, the momentum of the initiatives in place, after the survey, it really does come down to that, uh, open door policy. Really having leadership being open to feedback, have built those levels of trust with staff to be able to give feedback to leaderships and also the trust that, uh, as Kirsty said, it'll be acted upon. And if we can't act upon it, then have a real transparent conversation about why that is and what can we do instead.

Some of the work that, uh, previous leadership team put in place was around that aspect of time and communication, and really strategically giving staff opportunities during our PLCs to meet and discuss students' outcomes. And as Kirsty said, keeping students focused in that centre. It is all about the students and their needs.

Now, our current leadership team is really focused on the idea of a clear improvement narrative, giving all the staff a voice, providing the ancillary staff with high quality PD so they have the same communication, the same language as teachers, and can be considered partners in that student outcomes.

And our leadership team implement digital platform communication as, uh, many schools do. One initiative that we have, um, put in place that, um, not the Perspective survey, but our follow up check-ins have indicated have been well taken by staff is our PDP format. So Beth, our deputy and myself, are present in those meetings and we offer a coaching model and we coach the staff through the session.

So we ask them to come with less, less preconceived ideas of what we might want to hear. And instead through that open communication actually leave with meaningful and relevant goals. And, um, while that was something that we didn't put much weight to as far as we didn't think it would be a true, um, true lever, we just thought this was good practice and an opportunity that we could present. It's comeback from staff as a really meaningful opportunity.

And again, in some way it's really respected that aspect of time instead of the guesswork about what they think, uh, the leaders might want to hear. They come in, we have a real clear conversation, a real coaching method to actually unpack that deeply.

Yeah, I think that's a really powerful thing to have those sorts of conversations in an open forum with that coaching mindset in place.

 We are really talking about it in the smaller site though. Um, as the site gets larger, there would be many complexities around, um, time tabling where you would have two leaders in a session at the same time. So it may be unique to a, a site like such as ourselves. But, um, we do find it's a, it's a valuable method.

Kirsty Amos: Well, actually, Karl, it's interesting that you say that because we use a growth coaching model, but I don't do it all. So all of my leadership team have been trained in growth coaching, and it's a very similar process. We don't want people to come with preconceived ideas. So it is an authentic conversation where people are listened to and supported to come up with meaningful goals. Yeah. So that's great.

Karl Robst: Yeah. That's great.

Dale Atkinson: Now, if I can go back to the teacher perspective, Beth, what is the active role that the teaching workforce can play in this process? Not just of Perspective, but in terms of showing leadership from the troops?

Beth Pontifex: Yeah. I think it's all about, because schools, especially ours, is on that improvement trajectory around communication. Teachers actually feel more confident and willing to then go and ask those questions as well. Because the communications coming from leadership. Teachers feel confident to go and knock on a leader's door and ask a question or send an email, whereas that wasn't what people felt willing and comfortable to do previously.

But our focus is the young people in front of us and our focus is helping them. Whether that's positively, whether that's helping them redirect themselves and self-regulate. They're our focus. So just trying really hard to keep that in mind I think is something that is really important. We can all get bogged down in so much of the other stuff that happens in every school, every day, but just remembering why we're there.

Dale Atkinson: I think that's a powerful sentiment. So we might, uh, we're almost out of time, but we might just wrap up. Perhaps if I could go to each of you and just get your number one priority, communications wise over this term and how you are planning to kind of execute that. So, Kirsty, what do you think?

Kirsty Amos: Mm-hmm. Open, transparent, regular. Did I say honest already? It's really important that when, uh, people ask you a question that you answer it as honestly as you can with the information that you have, and do the best that you can to address whatever it is that the need is.

Dale Atkinson: Very good, Karl?

Karl Robst: I agree totally. I think having practices in place and avenues for communication in place at the moment, I think, um, we will really focus on being able to follow through with agreed actions from that communication.

So all staff who've have had a voice are seeing some results and together building that, that shared efficacy of that student outcomes, keeping those kids centred in the conversation.

Dale Atkinson: Consistency, commitment, honesty. Lots of good themes there. Karl, Kirsty. Beth, thank you very much for your time.

Kirsty Amos: Thank you.

Karl Robst: Thank you.